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Old 02-28-2010, 08:35 AM
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Default intresting question on pressure exerted by gas

A gas of temperature T is enclosed in a container whose walls are initially at temperature T1. When does the gas exert a higher pressure onto the walls of the container: when T1<T or when T1>T?
I tried using kinetic gas eqn but stuck. plese help
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by binayakafle View Post
A gas of temperature T is enclosed in a container whose walls are initially at temperature T1. When does the gas exert a higher pressure onto the walls of the container: when T1<T or when T1>T?
I tried using kinetic gas eqn but stuck. plese help
I didn't take a statistical mechanics course yet. So I'm tempted to use the law PV=nRT, which answers your question straightforward. However I wouldn't be too surprised if the answer differs.
I think pressure is directly proportional to the number of collisions by unit of time. Does heating the walls of the container increases the number of collisions by unit of time, assuming that the gas temperature doesn't change? I do not think so but I'm not 100% sure.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:29 AM
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Well that was actually my problem also that i didnt know if the heating of wall of containner has pointable effect in pressure of gas more than the increased temperature of gas?
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:43 AM
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Well that was actually my problem also that i didnt know if the heating of wall of containner has pointable effect in pressure of gas more than the increased temperature of gas?
In fact it would heat the gas and hence have measurable effects. But the question assume that the gas' temperature does not change. Thus more or less they are asking if the pressure on the walls are greater when you put a cold gas into a hot reservoir or when you put a hot gas into a cold reservoir, in the first say 0.0001 s. In this case I would use PV=nRT to answer the question.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:59 PM
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1)
Consider gas at temperature T, wall at temperature T.
The impulse going to the wall is mv(T),
the impulse going from the wall is -mv(T).
The impulse difference is
mv(T)-(-mv(T))=2mv(T).
Number of particles going to the wall n~v(T).
Pressure p(T)~mv(T)^2
The first member of impulse gives to pressure p(T)/2 and the second also p(T)/2,
so total pressure is p(T).
2)
Consider gas at temperature T, wall at temperature T1, time t=0 s.
The impulse going to the wall is mv(T),
the impulse going from the wall is -mv(T1).
The impulse difference is mv(T)+mv(T1).
Number of particles going to the wall n~v(T).
Pressure p(T1)(t=0)~mv(T)^2+mv(T1)v(T)=(1+v(T1)/v(T))p(T)/2.

If T1>T the pressure is higher p(T1)>p(T).
While heating member v(T) tends to v(T1) and finally total pressure becomes ~2mv(T1)^2.

Last edited by zzzoak; 04-01-2010 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzoak View Post
1)
Consider gas at temperature T, wall at temperature T.
The impulse going to the wall is mv(T),
the impulse going from the wall is -mv(T).
The impulse difference is
mv(T)-(-mv(T))=2mv(T).
Number of particles going to the wall n~v(T).
Pressure p(T)~mv(T)^2
The first member of impulse gives to pressure p(T)/2 and the second also p(T)/2,
so total pressure is p(T).
2)
Consider gas at temperature T, wall at temperature T1, time t=0 s.
The impulse going to the wall is mv(T),
the impulse going from the wall is -mv(T1).
The impulse difference is mv(T)+mv(T1).
Number of particles going to the wall n~v(T).
Pressure p(T1)(t=0)~mv(T)^2+mv(T1)v(T)=(1+v(T1)/v(T))p(T)/2.

If T1>T the pressure is higher p(T1)>p(T).
While heating member v(T) tends to v(T1) and finally total pressure becomes ~2mv(T1)^2.
That was very informative to me. I have a question though. In both cases (i.e. for T of the wall =T and T1>T), the impulse going to the wall is the same, namely mv(T) because the gas is at the same temperature. I understand the impulse difference is greater in the case the wall is hotter, but can you say that the gas exerts more pressure onto the wall in the case the wall is at T1>T compared to T?

I believe so... Nice explanation.
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